Higher Technology

  • the_Willard
    k, so one day i decided to go back and see how Penny Arcade started, since the particular comic i read said something about Mike's (Gabe's) art improving...and i sat there and read the whole 10 years of it. After that...i was inspired to start drawing my own based on the generally humorous shit that happens when myself and my friend hang out and play games. i started out drawing the whole thing in Illustrator with a mouse, then got a tablet and used that to draw it in Illustrator, and now what i'm doing is doing all the outlining in Illustrator and then coloring (i've even started doing some shading!) in Photoshop. However these all represent my first attempt at doing any of these things (or even using Photoshop and Illustrator) and some general help and critiquing would be useful.

    here's the mouse-drawn:
    warhawk2.jpg

    and the early tablet:
    htrockband2.jpg

    and the final style i'm planning to stick with:
    creativedifferences3.jpg


    k, the first two i had to copy from my blog where i post them as a corrupted hard drive cause me to lose the originals, but the last one is the original file, which is why it's bigger. the character are, as i said, based on myself and my friend, including their look. Even the clothes are based on an actual t-shirt and hoodie we wear often (hey...i like my skull and crossed swords shirt, yes i left the swords out on the Dane character) Also, before you level criticism keep these things in mind: 1) these are single panels taken out of context so no, they're not funny and 2) i know there isn't a real background in the 3rd one, it's intentional. That was a kind of "breaking the 4th wall" one so i didn't want it to have a real-world setting, just kind of a blank space.


    edit: Oh! my comic is called Higher Technology, hence the title of the thread
    and i just noticed i happened to pick three panels that have "dude..." in them hahaha, subconscious maybe?
  • Metalbourne
    The entire thing gives me the impression that you're not even trying.

    I'm not even going to go past the first panel. You take a look at it and tell me what's wrong with it. I'm going to be bold enough to wager that you don't know what's wrong with it, and that's why I'm just going to tell you now that you need a ton of art classes.
  • .Tripwire.
    Hey dude! I hope you don't mind, I drew some fanart for your comic:

    htech.jpg

    Your character in the holla hoodie looks like my idiot friend in Vancouver who is stupid.
  • NotASenator
    .Tripwire. wrote: »
    Hey dude! I hope you don't mind, I drew some fanart for your comic:

    htech.jpg

    Your character in the holla hoodie looks like my idiot friend in Vancouver who is stupid.

    Holy cap, I just saw it.
  • the_Willard
    holy shit dude that's...pretty awesome! makes me wish my comic were better lol. now i feel obligated to show it to you but i'm worried about "site-whoring" ooo! i'll put the link in my sig.
  • the_Willard
    k, so i decided to try another style again. i just can't make up my mind, damnit. haha, anyway, here's an unfinished look at where i'm headed. i still gotta finished the outline for dane and then draw lewis, and color and shade the whole thing. but i'm guessing you can tell just by looking at it.

    anyway:
    werefanboy1.jpg
  • Betelgeuse
    .Tripwire. wrote: »
    Your character in the holla hoodie looks like my idiot friend in Vancouver who is stupid.

    Haha, that is so spot on!
  • wasted+pixels
    .Tripwire. wrote: »
    Your character in the holla hoodie looks like my idiot friend in Vancouver who is stupid.

    My girlfriend and I (who merely lurk here) spent an unreasonable amount of time trying to figure out why you got an infraction for this.

    It was kind of beautiful when the pieces all came together.
  • beavotron
    i also can't figure out why trip was infracted?

    anyways, are there really hoodies that say "holla" on them?
  • wasted+pixels
    beavotron wrote: »
    i also can't figure out why trip was infracted?

    The post is full of clues. Just ask yourself what Encyclopedia Brown would do.
  • Kendeathwalker
    ..some one tell me. I dont get it.
  • Loomdun
    Sounds like a mystery for the mystery solving gang! "ruh roh"
  • NotASenator
    Maybe I'm just good with faces but as soon as he posted it, I cracked up.
  • Metalbourne
    Basically, bombs got pissed off because michael reavealed to the world what a fatass he is.
  • Godfather
    Hahahahahahahahah
  • Tam
    Hahaha, oh man, did Mr. Firman really paint Bombs in there?
  • Kendeathwalker
    bombs is either skinny or metal is an asshole.
  • Tam
    if that dichotomy wasn't false, you wouldn't need to ask that question
  • the_Willard
    well does someone wanna let me in on it or am i the butt of the joke?
  • Betelgeuse
    well does someone wanna let me in on it or am i the butt of the joke?
    .Tripwire. wrote:
    Your character in the holla hoodie looks like my idiot friend in Vancouver who is stupid.

    is referring to bombardier, who is the mod that subsequently gave Tripwire the infraction
  • the_Willard
    i was actually thinking exactly that because of some of the comments, but i dunno what the hell he looks like soooo...yeah.

    anyway, finished that panel (more or less) i was working on in yet another style.

    werefanboya.jpg

    i'll smooth out the shading later, right now i just don't feel like it.
  • winter_combat_knight
    bottom one is much better, in therms of tone, and colour.
    Are you drawing your pics with vectors? I wouldnt draw with vectors, unless i am accurately tracing a sketch i did with pencil. It looks really odd. Also, go back and refine things if they look wrong. The blonde hair dudes eye-brow is bleeding into his eye. That kinda screws up the entire face. So try and refine the little details if they aren't looking quite right.
  • Tam
    Elbows are too far up. Unless they're both very tense, they should be slouched a little, allowing the forearms to rest on the thighs.
  • NotASenator
    The ears are really far back and up on the heads. You should look at pictures of real people and try to stylize that into a cartoon.
  • the_Willard
    hey...where the hell did my pic go? and thanks for the help, i'll def do some work on it taking those into account.

    edit: k, i think i fixed whatever made the pic disappear. about the elbows i was trying to make it so they're resting the one arm on the arm of the couch, but Lewis (green sweatshirt guy) in particular looks pretty fucked up and i'm not quite sure how to make em look right. any chance someone has - or can draw quick - a sketch of something like how they SHOULD look?

    yep, ears are def outta line. prob because i skip that whole "drawing the skeleton and crossed lines on the face to make sure everything's proportional and lined up" step. i just draw this for fun in my spare time (i haven't taken an art class since high school) for my handful of friends that think my cartoons are funny, but i want them to look better, which is why i came here, so maybe i'll start doing that.

    last thing, i was trying to make Lewis look like he's doing that one raised eyebrow look but i def screwed it up, so i'll try and fix that too.

    THANKS GUYS!

    edit...again: Lewis's hands don't look quite right, but i suck at hands in general. ideas?
  • the_Willard
    here's what i've fixed so far. goin snowboarding so that's all i have time for at the moment.

    werefanboya.jpg

    as you can prob see i decided (or maybe realized is a better word) there should be a shadow in the shape of Lewis's head on his left shoulder.
  • the_Willard
    there, i think i managed to hit up all the crits you guys mentioned. so whaddya think?

    werefanboya.jpg
  • beavotron
    honestly... i don't notice any change in any of the three images...
  • NotASenator
    The face of the guy on the right is more round and less distorted.

    Also, there appears to be more highlights.
  • beavotron
    okay say you build a house
    but don't build a foundation
    instead you're just throwing up drywall randomly, chuck some wallpaper up, put a few paintings on the wall
    then someone comes and says "dude... that drywall looks hella crooked" so you kinda adjust it a bit.

    you still have a house without a foundation, you can play around with that drywall till you're blue in the face, your house is still unstable.

    here's your foundation: http://www.amazon.ca/New-Drawing-Right-Side-Brain/dp/0874774241
  • the_Willard
    1st image to 2nd image: lowered left guy's ear to line up properly, added proper shadowing to right guy's shoulder, blended shadows on couch, right guy's sweatshirt and left guy's beard better.

    still needed: lower/fix elbows. take care of "blonde guy's eyebrow bleeding into his eye" from things mentioned by other posters

    2nd image to 3rd image: adjusted right guy's elbow so it looks like it's resting beside him and reaching forward instead of being held in front of him like he's flexing (urgh! Hulk smash!) and fixed all the shadows and highlights on arm and front of torso in accordance. rounded out right guy's head and moved eyebrow up to stop if from bleeding into eye.
    the changes are def there if you look, especially if you look at them next to each other.

    and thanks for the book recommendation beavotron but, like i said, i just do this for the 3 or 4 of my friend's who think my cartoon is funny. i don't really have to time or, more importantly, money to start investing into making this think look like a real artist drew it. I did bookmark that page though in case there comes a time were i have...the time...yeah that'll work.


    anyway, now that i've gone through everything you guys mentioned looked wrong after the first post of it i don't look at it and immediately go "something doesn't look right," which is good enough for my purposes. SO thanks! and i'm sure i'll be back going "ok...so this is what i fucked up this time..."
  • beavotron
    oh well if it's just for fun, then have at it and keep having fun.
  • the_Willard
    o, damnit forgot: i'm getting HELLA better at using photoshop (which is probably my biggest hurdle, haha) by going back and looking at things per your recommendations so thanks for that too!
  • beavotron
    photoshop is like a giant puzzle
    you just gotta play around with it a lot to get it, if you have specific photoshop questions, just ask, there are lots of people around here who can help you with that.
  • bombardier
    If you are not really looking to become a better and skilled artist, then why are you posting here?
  • Metalbourne
    beavotron wrote: »
    okay say you build a house
    but don't build a foundation
    instead you're just throwing up drywall randomly, chuck some wallpaper up, put a few paintings on the wall
    then someone comes and says "dude... that drywall looks hella crooked" so you kinda adjust it a bit.

    you still have a house without a foundation, you can play around with that drywall till you're blue in the face, your house is still unstable.

    here's your foundation: http://www.amazon.ca/New-Drawing-Right-Side-Brain/dp/0874774241

    You're stupid. Aluminum siding will make that house look just fine. Fake it till you make it!
  • the_Willard
    bombardier wrote: »
    If you are not really looking to become a better and skilled artist, then why are you posting here?


    just so i can get some tips on some of the more obvious things (to a more trained artist's eye anyway) that make my toons look off so i don't make those same mistakes EVERY time i draw them and have to sit there going "fuck...what IS it!?". Also so i can try and decide on the style i want to draw them in. And lastly so i can get a better handle on Photoshop in case the day comes where i do have the time and motivation to do some REAL artwork.

    ...although mostly because it was Penny Arcade that inspired me to draw a comic about me and my idiot friend playing videogames in the first place.
  • Metalbourne
    just so i can get some tips on some of the more obvious things (to a more trained artist's eye anyway)

    Hey, genius, why don't you go back and look at the post right under the one that started this whole fucking travesty. Or was that not what you wanted to hear?

    You're a lazy fuck who just isn't going to get better. I've seen a million different webcomics come through here and I've heard every single excuse ever given for sucking so bad. Everything from "being shitty is my style" to "It doesn't matter because its just for my two loser-ass freinds to get a giggle out of."

    So what the fuck makes you special enough to tell anything other than, "go take a fucking art class?"
  • the_Willard
    beavotron wrote: »
    photoshop is like a giant puzzle
    you just gotta play around with it a lot to get it, if you have specific photoshop questions, just ask, there are lots of people around here who can help you with that.

    hey so...since you offered...
    i still can't seem to get the same results off drawing with a tablet in Photshop that i do when i draw with just pencil and paper. is it just because i'm using a fairly cheap tablet, or did anyone else go through the same adjustment? anything special you did to close that gap, or does it just take time to adjust? as far as finding the tools i need in photoshop, i'm sure that i will get the hang of given enough time.

    just so i can get some tips on some of the more obvious things (to a more trained artist's eye anyway)

    Hey, genius, why don't you go back and look at the post right under the one that started this whole fucking travesty. Or was that not what you wanted to hear?

    You're a lazy fuck who just isn't going to get better. I've seen a million different webcomics come through here and I've heard every single excuse ever given for sucking so bad. Everything from "being shitty is my style" to "It doesn't matter because its just for my two loser-ass freinds to get a giggle out of."

    So what the fuck makes you special enough to tell anything other than, "go take a fucking art class?"

    maybe the fact that just because i'm not planning to make a career out of drawing shouldn't exclude me from getting some help on the art that i DO draw, nor should the fact that i don't have the time or money to be spending on art classes and digesting art books, you elitist douchetool. although this doesn't make me special, just like any average person who decided to get back to doing some doodling because i saw something that inspired me to do so. (but CLEARLY being too busy with my life outside of drawing makes me a lazy fuck.) considering that i did manage to get some tips there are obviously other people here that feel the same way.
    no one's forcing you to come in here and post, if you're so terribly offended by my cartoons then just stay the fuck off the thread, it's not like it's sneaking up on you; "o hey, a new thread let's check that ou-Damnit! it's that Higher Technology thread again, sneaky bastard!" so tell me, is it that you are completely incapable of saying anything constructive, or just that you're incapable of NOT being a total fuckwad?
  • D-Robe
    douchetool? :D I've never heard that one.
  • Metalbourne
    beavotron wrote: »
    photoshop is like a giant puzzle
    you just gotta play around with it a lot to get it, if you have specific photoshop questions, just ask, there are lots of people around here who can help you with that.

    hey so...since you offered...
    i still can't seem to get the same results off drawing with a tablet in Photshop that i do when i draw with just pencil and paper. is it just because i'm using a fairly cheap tablet, or did anyone else go through the same adjustment? anything special you did to close that gap, or does it just take time to adjust? as far as finding the tools i need in photoshop, i'm sure that i will get the hang of given enough time.

    just so i can get some tips on some of the more obvious things (to a more trained artist's eye anyway)

    Hey, genius, why don't you go back and look at the post right under the one that started this whole fucking travesty. Or was that not what you wanted to hear?

    You're a lazy fuck who just isn't going to get better. I've seen a million different webcomics come through here and I've heard every single excuse ever given for sucking so bad. Everything from "being shitty is my style" to "It doesn't matter because its just for my two loser-ass freinds to get a giggle out of."

    So what the fuck makes you special enough to tell anything other than, "go take a fucking art class?"

    maybe the fact that just because i'm not planning to make a career out of drawing shouldn't exclude me from getting some help on the art that i DO draw, nor should the fact that i don't have the time or money to be spending on art classes and digesting art books, you elitist douchetool. although this doesn't make me special, just like any average person who decided to get back to doing some doodling because i saw something that inspired me to do so. (but CLEARLY being too busy with my life outside of drawing makes me a lazy fuck.) considering that i did manage to get some tips there are obviously other people here that feel the same way.
    no one's forcing you to come in here and post, if you're so terribly offended by my cartoons then just stay the fuck off the thread, it's not like it's sneaking up on you; "o hey, a new thread let's check that ou-Damnit! it's that Higher Technology thread again, sneaky bastard!" so tell me, is it that you are completely incapable of saying anything constructive, or just that you're incapable of NOT being a total fuckwad?

    Yeah, I did say something constructive in my first post, you bitchburglar.

    Now go back and read it and fucking do what I told you to. Otherwise, pack up your shit and get the fuck out of my office.
  • the_Willard

    Now go back and read it and fucking do what I told you to. Otherwise, pack up your shit and get the fuck out of my office.


    Well, someone's certainly got an ego, or i just didn't realize you owned this forum (and hiding behind it being a quote doesn't change anything). i think PA actually did a comic about you

    And since when did "you suck, try taking an art class" constitute something constructive? Now how about you pack up your shit and get the fuck out of my thread, troll cockstain.
  • Godfather
    Willard, pack up your stuff and get out while you can.

    You just did the equivalent of punching a bear in the face; did nothing but made him mad.
  • winter_combat_knight
    @ Metalbourne: ...you elitist douchetool.

    I second that! :)
  • beavotron
    beavotron wrote: »
    photoshop is like a giant puzzle
    you just gotta play around with it a lot to get it, if you have specific photoshop questions, just ask, there are lots of people around here who can help you with that.

    hey so...since you offered...
    i still can't seem to get the same results off drawing with a tablet in Photshop that i do when i draw with just pencil and paper. is it just because i'm using a fairly cheap tablet, or did anyone else go through the same adjustment? anything special you did to close that gap, or does it just take time to adjust? as far as finding the tools i need in photoshop, i'm sure that i will get the hang of given enough time.


    i have never been able to get the same effect, so i usually sketch on paper, scan and color.
  • Grenn
  • winter_combat_knight
    yeah, trying to get the same effect of traditional methods in photoshop is very difficult. There are brushes that can kind of replicate effects. Though i havnt really bothered to learn using them. last year at uni, i was wanting my digital paintings to look traditional. So to get a pencil look to my sketches, i grabbed a standard brush and screwed around with the brush settings until i created something that looked kinda traditional. In the end, when i showed the result to my tutor, he thought it was sketched on paper and i scanned it into the comp and digi coloured it.

    Not a tutorial by any means, but here are the brushes i like to use, when trying to replicate a pencil look, digitally. Also there are the brush settings i mess around with.
    15cn4si.jpg
    so just screw around with setting till you find something you're comfortable with. With your comics, i think you should go with a more natural look. These just look too much like dodgy vector art. even try scanning you clean sketches in your computer, and colour them digitally like beavs said.

    Im not a great artist, but seeing as you're new to photoshop, i hope this can help in some way :)
  • wasted+pixels

    Now go back and read it and fucking do what I told you to. Otherwise, pack up your shit and get the fuck out of my office.


    Well, someone's certainly got an ego, or i just didn't realize you owned this forum (and hiding behind it being a quote doesn't change anything). i think PA actually did a comic about you

    And since when did "you suck, try taking an art class" constitute something constructive? Now how about you pack up your shit and get the fuck out of my thread, troll cockstain.

    A few thoughts.

    First of all, this forum heavily emphasizes meaningful and ongoing artistic growth. If you had taken some time to actually peruse AC before jumping in, you would realize that everyone who regularly posts here is primarily concerned with improving as an artist. Nobody here is going to say "hey, at least you tried", they're going to provide specific input on what you need to do to improve. If you try to swim upstream against that, you're going to be called on your bullshit. That's how it works.

    Second, you do suck, and you do need to take an art class. Everyone sucks when they start at something. What else do you want people to tell you? You're wasting people's time by demanding attention and feedback before learning even the bare basics of your craft. Imagine if I joined a music forum and posted an MP3 of myself clumsily strumming the chords G, C, and D on a guitar over and over. No song, no structure, just the three most basic chords in the world. What would they tell me?
    • Hey, maybe you should learn to play the fucking guitar before you try to write a song
    • Hey, maybe you should actually write something instead of strumming the same three chords for four minutes
    • Hey, why are you wasting our time with this?
    And what else are they supposed to tell me? I didn't bother to learn to play an instrument or write music before posting on the songwriter forum, so what feedback can they possibly give me beyond "why don't you learn how to make music before wasting our time?" And if I'm just doing it for fun, and I don't care about actually learning the craft, then maybe I shouldn't post my "fun" on a forum for people who take the craft very seriously, and maybe I shouldn't demand that they provide validation of my "fun".

    Last, if you barge into a forum with no regard for it's customs and culture, you don't get to call someone a "troll" for calling you on your bullshit. Not how it works.

    If you actually want to learn to draw, why don't you follow the advice that these incredibly talented artists have given you and start with the basics? Study some drawing manuals, then come back in a week to show us the lines, circles, squares, and triangles you're drawing. I'm sure there will be plenty of people here who will be more than happy to hold your hand and help you learn the basics, as long as you actually apply yourself and listen to their advice. If you were just looking for unearned praise for hopelessly amateurish work, though, why don't you take your pirated copy of Adobe Creative Suite and get the fuck out of Metalbourne's office?
  • spellchrome
    You're wasting people's time by demanding attention and feedback before learning even the bare basics of your craft. Imagine if I joined a music forum and posted an MP3 of myself clumsily strumming the chords G, C, and D on a guitar over and over. No song, no structure, just the three most basic chords in the world. What would they tell me?
    • Hey, maybe you should learn to play the fucking guitar before you try to write a song
    • Hey, maybe you should actually write something instead of strumming the same three chords for four minutes
    • Hey, why are you wasting our time with this?
    And what else are they supposed to tell me? I didn't bother to learn to play an instrument or write music before posting on the songwriter forum, so what feedback can they possibly give me beyond "why don't you learn how to make music before wasting our time?"

    Good way to put the situation in perspective W.P. There's a time for advice and there's a time for practice. Ask questions if you want to learn, but be willing to absorb the feed back offered. You can't use advice as a shortcut, only to point you vaguely in the right direction.

    With your comics, i think you should go with a more natural look. These just look too much like dodgy vector art. even try scanning you clean sketches in your computer, and colour them digitally like beavs said.

    The computer is not your friend. Figure it out with a pencil first. Seriously, you're trying to learn two things at once. [Insert clever Analogy here].

    No one is saying you have to spend a lot of money, (Google art tutorials, or something along those lines, to find free resources; drop $20 on A drawing book) but you've got to be willing to spend the time. If you don't have the time to practice drawing... well just re-read some of the above posts.
  • t+i+m
    Willard,

    Here is a very basic photoshop tutorial I did that might help you out. I apologize for the sloppy handwriting. If you have any questions let me know.

    Tutorial

    http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a296/gr4phic4rt/pennytut.jpg

    Tim

    Edit: In the tut, I suppose layer 5 and 6 are completely optional. You could stop at layer 4 and be happy. I guess it depends on how far you want to go with it.
  • Metalbourne

    Now go back and read it and fucking do what I told you to. Otherwise, pack up your shit and get the fuck out of my office.


    Well, someone's certainly got an ego, or i just didn't realize you owned this forum (and hiding behind it being a quote doesn't change anything). i think PA actually did a comic about you

    And since when did "you suck, try taking an art class" constitute something constructive? Now how about you pack up your shit and get the fuck out of my thread, troll cockstain.

    And while you're at it, you ignorant iguana fucker, go back to my first post, and read it another two or three times. Specifically, read the first part where I said, "look at the first panel and tell me what's wrong with it." But apparently tripwire's "fan art" gave you such a huge fucking head that you figured you didn't need to do any actual work anymore.

    Well, while we're on the subject, lets wonder why tripwire got infracted for drawing you "fan art". Do you really think bombardier is offended because he's his stupid friend from vancouver? Or maybe the other elitist douchetools were making fun of you with an inside joke that you wouldn't understand; much like that time in high school when the cheerleaders gave you an invitation to a party at an address that didn't exist.

    Of course, the other reason that you haven't done what I told you is because you don't actually fucking know what's wrong with the first panel. Of course, I explained the rest of that scenario in my first post. And, I'll repeat it again: I've seen a million shitty webcomics come through here. And every one that was about two friends who played video games was defended by an artist who could give a million justifications for why he was a shitty artist, but none for why he should improve.

    So take my abrasive style or leave it, I don't care. If you're so offended that you'll never comeback, it doesn't matter, there will be another asshole with a shitty wecomic back here in a couple days. But, hey, at the least, this entire exchange should give you some ammunition for your next strip for your two friends to laugh about.
  • .Tripwire.
    bombardier wrote:
    Dear .Tripwire.,

    You have received an infraction at Penny Arcade Forums.

    Reason: Minor Offense
    Your

    face

    is

    STUPID.

    This infraction is worth 2 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires.


    All the best,
    Penny Arcade Forums

    It was racially motivated.
  • the_Willard
    winter_combat_knight: ah, cool i try those. yeah, my scaneer died months ago...i don't have one anymore :( but since i'm starting to get the hang of photoshop, i think i will skip the vector art from now on.

    wasted pixels: fair enough, but are you seriously going to invest time, money, and effort to learn all the ins and outs of the instrument if you just want to do a cover of one song? probably not. Higher Technology being the one and only thing i spend any time drawing, i see it much the same way. second, i wasn't looking for "unnearned praise" or validation, just some tips to improve what i had, which i managed to get from winter_combat_knight, Tam and NotACrook, so my drawings obviously aren't completely devoid of merit. i'm not "demanding" your attention and feedback, if you feel my art is so far beneath you that it's a waste of your time, you can just ignore me, it's not going to bother me any.

    spellchrome: i can draw just fine with a pencil and paper, if i could get the same quality digitally...well i wouldn't be here. and since i couldn't maintain the same quality, i just skipped earlier steps to get it done quicker. considering Metalbourne's ONLY advice was "take a fucking art class" yes that IS asking to spend a lot of money. Since i am currently saving for a cross-country move coming up in July, ANY expenditure on something that is just a hobby is pretty much out of the question. (which is why i kept saying "at some point in the future when i can dedicate the time/effort")

    t i m: THANK YOU!!!! (don't worry, your handwriting isn't any worse than mine) That is exactly the kind of help i was hoping for, i may even put that to use much sooner than i originally planned. it's especially ironic because i was just coming in here to ask about how to use layers to do...well...that. i'm kind of interested to see how you would have drawn the other guy, haha. i'll see if i can put together something that puts your tut to use and come back with it. it might be a little while though while i decide if i want to implement it now and interrupt the current episode with such a drastic change in style, or finish it the way it is now and draw the next one like that.

    my comic is for the jokes, (mostly in-jokes with my friends, although if you know the games i'm talking about in the episode, you'd prob find it funny too) not the art. but since i'm the only one that can draw it...well, i'm the only one drawing it. so unless someone wants to take my stuff and do the art for it (be the Gabe to my Tycho) i just need some help getting photoshop to do what i want and an outside opinion when i KNOW something looks wrong.

    and last, since you ALL managed to post without being the complete fuckstick that Metalbourne was, i maintain my opinion that he is a complete and utter tool. An opinion that at least winter shares, so i know i'm not alone in thinking this.
  • Metalbourne
    .Tripwire. wrote: »
    bombardier wrote:
    Dear .Tripwire.,

    You have received an infraction at Penny Arcade Forums.

    Reason: Minor Offense
    Your

    face

    is

    STUPID.

    This infraction is worth 2 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires.


    All the best,
    Penny Arcade Forums

    It was racially motivated.

    In all fairness, you do look pretty stupid.
  • spellchrome
    I used to borrow drawing books from the public library. They were often beat up and out of date, but hey, at least they were on a subject I liked.
  • the_Willard
    I used to borrow drawing books from the public library. They were often beat up and out of date, but hey, at least they were on a subject I liked.


    holy fuck...that's a DAMN GOOD idea. i hope the library in this shit town has some. of course they had a graphic novel section with Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns so...just maybe...


    but alright, sleep time, i'll prob be back around 12/1am when i'm just sitting at work with nothing to do. too bad i can't install photoshop on the hotel's computers and sit there drawing all night cause i think work is the largest block of free time i have...how fucked up is that?
  • Betelgeuse
    But you can use pencil and paper, which is better than using Photoshop when you are trying to learn how to draw anyway.
  • NotASenator
    I prefer the term "doucheking".

    Royalty amongst the douches.
  • Shiboe
    I agree with metalborne and wasted pixels. The thing is, this does happen. Alot. Bad comics I mean. Keep in mind this isn't an attack on you, but we all suck at some point. I go even so far as to think we are always sucking, we are just at different levels of "suck" and realizations of that push you to the next level. The only real attacks on you are based on your reactions to criticism and your unwillingness to learn.

    Now what others have done, giving you more than just direction, is damn decent of them. But understand, most everyone here has to go through the same laborious steps to get where they are and further. What you are asking is basically to skip all that, tell me the "secrets" or "tricks." There really aren't any real ones. There are some that can allow you to fake it, and make certain things look better, but without the understanding and practice, it wont really help you.

    It's especially frustrating though when you state how you want help improving, but also state you don't care to really improve. You want some quick tricks, some people are going to give some to you, it wont be good for you, but it will help things look less shitty as long as you stay in their scope.

    In summation, if you want to really improve, take all of this in, and PRACTICE. You don't really need to buy much of anything, I haven't bought any books, but they will help you improve faster, lord knows I'm progressing slowly. If you want to keep on the "care but don't care" train, be grateful for those who are too nice, but don't be a dick when others don't placate to your failings.
  • Metalbourne
    Well, if the cockdoubler is finally willing to visit the library and check out some books, someone tell him to check out Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud. Because we are not on speaking terms.
  • beavotron
    is there a cockdoubler here?
    mister cockdoubler?
    i have an urgent message for you from one mister metalbourne.
  • winter_combat_knight
    man, i dont know if ive missed someting (and ive read the entire thread!), but i can't tell if Metalbourne is serious, or joking. Take a chill pill dude8-) the messages you're posting is not the way you should speak to other human beings.
  • wasted+pixels
    man, i dont know if ive missed someting (and ive read the entire thread!), but i can't tell if Metalbourne is serious, or joking. Take a chill pill dude8-) the messages you're posting is not the way you should speak to other human beings.

    Metalbourne is cutting the_Willard down to size so that the_Willard will dig deep and work harder than he's ever worked in his life just to prove Metalbourne wrong. the_Willard will then someday realize that Metalbourne wasn't being cruel, he was just lighting a fire under the_Willard's ass to get him moving. He'll look back fondly on Metalbourne with the same warm, nostalgic memories that a soldier has about his drill instructor; "He pushed me to be my best".

    ...or he's a huge asshole, one of the two.
  • Ravenshadow
    man, i dont know if ive missed someting (and ive read the entire thread!), but i can't tell if Metalbourne is serious, or joking. Take a chill pill dude8-) the messages you're posting is not the way you should speak to other human beings.

    Metalbourne is cutting the_Willard down to size so that the_Willard will dig deep and work harder than he's ever worked in his life just to prove Metalbourne wrong. the_Willard will then someday realize that Metalbourne wasn't being cruel, he was just lighting a fire under the_Willard's ass to get him moving. He'll look back fondly on Metalbourne with the same warm, nostalgic memories that a soldier has about his drill instructor; "He pushed me to be my best".

    ...or he's a huge asshole, one of the two.

    You're assuming those two options are mutually exclusive. There's a reason my sig is, the way it is.
  • beavotron
    metalbourne is the enforcer
  • D-Robe
    I always thought of him more as the Informer. See Snow for details.
  • NotASenator
    He's just got a superiority complex going on.

    Trust me, I am very familiar with it.
  • Metalbourne
    man, i dont know if ive missed someting (and ive read the entire thread!), but i can't tell if Metalbourne is serious, or joking. Take a chill pill dude8-) the messages you're posting is not the way you should speak to other human beings.

    THEY ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS THEY ARE LITTLE BOXES THAT GENERATE TEXT AND I CAN MAKE AND DESROY THEM AT MY SLIGHTEST WHIM!
  • S_O
    To the original poster:

    Nice work! Keep practicing and you are sure to improve by leaps and bounds!
  • Metalbourne
    Andrew you are the anchor that gives my spirit license to soar.


    8254LYF
  • S_O
    Can I share one of my comics with everybody?


    sweetbroandhellajeff.jpg
  • D-Robe
    Sweet Bro.
  • the_Willard
    man, i dont know if ive missed someting (and ive read the entire thread!), but i can't tell if Metalbourne is serious, or joking. Take a chill pill dude8-) the messages you're posting is not the way you should speak to other human beings.

    Metalbourne is cutting the_Willard down to size so that the_Willard will dig deep and work harder than he's ever worked in his life just to prove Metalbourne wrong. the_Willard will then someday realize that Metalbourne wasn't being cruel, he was just lighting a fire under the_Willard's ass to get him moving. He'll look back fondly on Metalbourne with the same warm, nostalgic memories that a soldier has about his drill instructor; "He pushed me to be my best".

    ...or he's a huge asshole, one of the two.

    You're assuming those two options are mutually exclusive. There's a reason my sig is, the way it is.

    haha, i'll get on board with that line of thought. although, in all seriousness, i actually feel a lot better about Metalbourne now. if he wasn't such a huge assnugget i would have been perfectly happy continuing on with my comic "good enough" for my friends since they actually know less about drawing than i do, so it would have made no difference to them. but now i'm probably going to put far more work into bringing it up to snuff than i was ever planning to before jsut for my own personal satisfaction.

    so
    Well, if the cockdoubler is finally willing to visit the library and check out some books, someone tell him to check out Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud. Because we are not on speaking terms.

    awww, Metal, don't be like that. i was hoping we could be BFFF's (that's best fuckin friends forever for the Pineapple Express impaired). and yeah, i'll see if i can find that book while i'm lookin around at the library, vagbooger.

    and Shiboe. it's not that i "care but don't care" it's just that this webcomic is the only thing i draw (i haven't done any artwork in years, much to the chagrin of my high school art teachers) so i just wanted to learn things that pertained to that style of drawing. for example, taking the "i can't even pretend to afford it right now" argument off the table, i'm not going to go to an art class where they have me painting bowls of fruit and nude models when i just want to draw a cartoon about the stupid shit that goes on when me and my friends get together, usually to play videogames. i do care, it's just that i only care about learning stuff that i'm actually going to use.

    anyway, i'm gonna do some good ol' pencil and paper sketching for practice while i'm sitting here at work. but, as i said earlier, i don't have a scanner so i'll have to figure out a way to post them here. maybe i'll just take pics with my digital camera...yeah that'll probably be it.

    to S_O: i just have one thing to say to you; WTF!?
  • Mustang
    Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions
    Pfft you don't merely read "Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff" you have to appreciate it like a fine wine.
  • the_Willard
    i appreciate it more like a nightmare i'm glad is over. it's just...disturbing, hahah. (and yes i get that he's mocking my comic...not that there's any material like that in mine)

    so i'm studying t i m's tutorial and now i have a photoshop question. how do you guys do shadowing and highlights? i've been using the dodge/burn tool for it, but in t i m's thing at least it looks more like he copies the color with the eyedropper and then darkens it before applying. is one way better than the other, is it a matter of preference or was i just doing it wrong altogether?
  • D-Robe
    The dodge-burn tool should not be used for shadowing and highlights.
  • S_O
    i appreciate it more like a nightmare i'm glad is over.

    OVER???
  • D-Robe
    Oh Willard. You done did it now.
  • the_Willard
    odeargodno.

    can everyone at least keep their pants on this time?:|
  • S_O
    This time.



    sweetbroandhellajeff2.jpg
  • acadia
    S_O wrote: »
    This time.



    <image full of awesome>

    He does the shitty webcomic so WELL.
  • D-Robe
    Well its not worse than MS Paint Adventures....
  • desperaterobots
    Holy shit that was hilarious.
  • the_Willard
    hahahaha, so just HOW high do you get before coming up with those?

    anyways, here's what little sketching i did at work. it's uhhh, well it's not very good. maybe i've been out of practice for too long. anyway, here it is:
    img0172wum.jpg


    and i did find one i drew a few years ago. here it is as well as the reference i used for comparison:
    img0169j.jpg

    and yes, i am already aware that they eye is up too high, the jawline is too rounded, and the ear is the wrong shape. but yeah, that's me sketching the old fashioned way with pencil and paper.
  • Grenn
    Man, this thread delivers.

    Willard, your IP has moved onto greener pastures I'm afraid... :winky:
  • beavotron
    oh s_o
    can your next ms paint adventure be about two guys who love to play video games?
  • winter_combat_knight
    just did a little paintover of your skethc. I think if you bring everything a little more closer, it will look better. And try to get used to spotting subtle details. in the reference pic, he looks really focussed, almost angry, but in your pic, hes smiling :)
    I just moved all your bits tighter together, and painted a few more higher contrasts.
    though, my paintover doesnt really look like the reference, i think just being a little more aware of structure and adding more contrasts really help the likeness.
    e5lnrc.jpg

    Also, your pic reminded me of the auto pilot on the film 'flying High', or as it was called in the U.S.A, 'Airplane'

    23vkrh0.jpg
  • S_O
    hahahaha, so just HOW high do you get before coming up with those?

    You figured me out bro, I toke for broke!

    sweetbroandhellajeff3.jpg
  • bebarce
    Hella Jeff looks like some stupid guy I know that lives in Vancouver.
  • Metalbourne
    You better watch it, making fun of our fatass mods will get you infracted.
  • Fabricate
    i appreciate it more like a nightmare i'm glad is over. it's just...disturbing, hahah. (and yes i get that he's mocking my comic...not that there's any material like that in mine)

    so i'm studying t i m's tutorial and now i have a photoshop question. how do you guys do shadowing and highlights? i've been using the dodge/burn tool for it, but in t i m's thing at least it looks more like he copies the color with the eyedropper and then darkens it before applying. is one way better than the other, is it a matter of preference or was i just doing it wrong altogether?

    Dodge/burn tools are awful and look awful. It's like pooping all over the computer.

    The more likely thing he was doing was having the brush opacity set to pen pressure and using a darker and/or lighter color over the base.

    there are several ways to go about it, but what you'll probably find easiest is to make a new layer in photoshop and set it to multiply. everything on that layer will darken the colors on the ones below it.

    do not use black though, use a dark blue or a violet.

    For highlights I dont remember, maybe overlay, I havent done it this way in a while.

    Also, S_O I love you
  • Kris
    Oh dear lord. S_O, thank you. I laughed so hard at that first comic it brought tears to my eyes. :^:
  • bebarce
    hahaha, the best part I just realized is that in the 3rd panel of the stairs comic you can still see the end of the word "pants" as it was copied directly from the first comic.

    Shit S_O you're work's like a fucking onion.
  • D-Robe
    You mean it stinks and makes you cry?
  • desperaterobots
    lol d-robe, and lol s_o. lol everybody.
  • the_Willard
    just did a little paintover of your skethc. I think if you bring everything a little more closer, it will look better. And try to get used to spotting subtle details. in the reference pic, he looks really focussed, almost angry, but in your pic, hes smiling :)
    I just moved all your bits tighter together, and painted a few more higher contrasts.
    though, my paintover doesnt really look like the reference, i think just being a little more aware of structure and adding more contrasts really help the likeness.

    you know, doing a paintover on that pic's not a bad idea, i can fix the little things that have been bugging me. also, what pic reminds you of the autopilot?
    Fabricate wrote: »
    i appreciate it more like a nightmare i'm glad is over. it's just...disturbing, hahah. (and yes i get that he's mocking my comic...not that there's any material like that in mine)

    so i'm studying t i m's tutorial and now i have a photoshop question. how do you guys do shadowing and highlights? i've been using the dodge/burn tool for it, but in t i m's thing at least it looks more like he copies the color with the eyedropper and then darkens it before applying. is one way better than the other, is it a matter of preference or was i just doing it wrong altogether?

    Dodge/burn tools are awful and look awful. It's like pooping all over the computer.

    The more likely thing he was doing was having the brush opacity set to pen pressure and using a darker and/or lighter color over the base.

    there are several ways to go about it, but what you'll probably find easiest is to make a new layer in photoshop and set it to multiply. everything on that layer will darken the colors on the ones below it.

    do not use black though, use a dark blue or a violet.

    For highlights I dont remember, maybe overlay, I havent done it this way in a while.

    Also, S_O I love you

    ahhhh, i was wondering what that thing pointing out "multiply" on one of the layers was, i had no idea what it did and as such, what he was trying to show me. and thanks for the image of my computer covered in poop btw, hahaha.


    and only 2 panels on that last one S_O? come on, don't start slackin now, you'll disappoint us, your fans.
  • the_Willard
    I come bearing a gift, but we'll get to that in a minute.

    I never came in here with the intention of "learning to draw the easy way" or any other douchy cries for attention/validation/praise. What i did come here for was some help from the source. i know i can't draw, i never claimed otherwise, but as i have said, i'm all we've got. I got my friends started reading Penny Arcade (rhombus has become synonymous with bitch and acts as the basis for an endless stream of jokes and shit-talking) and sometime after that we started thinking of some of the funnier shit that we come up with/happens to us in comic form. You know "hey, that would be hilarious if it was a comic where...and in the next panel..." you get the idea. However, none of us can draw, i am, quite literally, the best we've got.
    And since it was Penny Arcade that started the shenanigans, i thought it would be the best place to seek out some help.

    Let's look at the guitar analogy again. Say my friend's band needs to practice but their guitarist is sick, they've heard i can kind of play the song they need to practice and ask me to stand in. So if i decide that first i'm going to ask some actual guitarists for help with that one song, and only that one song that i can kind of play, i don't see how that's an excuse to morph into a complete douchetool (yes, that's my favorite product of my talent for creating new insults via amalgamation) and emit an endless stream of "fuck off, fuck off, fuck off..." until i give up. Not that i'm pointing fingers...this is the internet, i type names: Metalbourne. And while we're on the topic, i know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but stop trying to combine words into new insults...just...stop. See douchetool works because you are a douche and a tool, vagbooger works because having a booger in your vag would be disgusting and annoying, and assnugget...well that's just a turd. See how that works? But bitchburgler? Cockdoubler? How does one burgle bitches? You're just throwing random words together and it pales in comparison.

    And anyone that is taking the stance of me being unreasonable, or responding poorly to criticism, go back and read through the thread. The only time i started slinging shit back at Metal was when he issued a personal attack. A comment that had nothing to do with anything other than insulting me and calling me "a lazy fuck." Yes, i'm SO lazy. So incredibly lazy because i moved across the country and am building a successful career as a game designer and don't want to switch gears completely and become a graphic designer so that i can better entertain my friends and other random people that happen by occassionally and get a giggle at our jokes.

    My friends and i come up with so many comics that never make it to completion because i become so frustrated with my inability to draw and fighting with photoshop that i just don't finish them out of disgust. Where would Penny Arcade be if Tycho (Jerry) didn't have Gabe (Mike)? It never would have happened because either A) Jerry's inability to draw would have gotten it completely ignored or B) Jerry's inability to draw prevents him from even trying. (not that i'm claiming to be as funny as PA) I thought, at the time, that it would be a good idea to get some help from experienced people that i can actually interact with (books don't answer specific questions well very often) so i could at least stop yelling "fuck you wanglicker!" at photoshop while i'm trying to draw with what little artistic ability i have. yes, it is amateurish; i am an amateur who only ever took a single art class in high school. I would like to become a better artist so that can live up to my part of our little endeavor, but i'm not looking to dedicate my life to it.

    And to S_O: what the hell man? I was so disappointed to have returned here after such a long absence and find nothing new from the world of Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff. Yes, i do get it, by the way, you're mocking me, i just don't care. My jokingly asking how high you get when you write this stuff was commentary on the type of random "wtf!?" Adult Swim style humor your mockery has. Adult Swim, of course, the type of programming that generally caters to those stoned off their ass. I like how you mocked my question in the comic that followed by capitalizing random words, very clever...really. But it was pretty damn funny in it's randomness and i'm serious when i state my disappointment at it's apparent conclusion.

    So yes, I am sorry. I'm sorry that i entered and asked for help without realizing this place is for professional and aspiring to be professional artists only. I'm sorry if i didn't explain my position early or clearly enough to avoid some of this douchestorm, even if that meant everyone just ignored me or i was booted. I'm even sorry i felt the need to defend myself when comments went from criticism of my drawing to an attack on me personally, i know better. I know a fuckstick (that would be a cock, dick, wiener, prick, etc.) who likes to make himself feel superior on an internet forum because he knows that forum is the only place where he will ever matter enough to get away with such antics and i know better than to play into their ego-stroking, but i faltered. So i am, in fact, sorry.

    So i present to you a gift. My latest comic that i actually finished to mock and poke fun, or giggle at, whichever grants you the most satisfaction. It took me much longer to finish than i would have liked (even though i started trying out a "sketchy" style that actually works with my lack of artistic ability and lets me draw everything out faster than my others) and so the joke is not at the height of relevance i would have preferred. Why did it take me so long if it still looks like butt? Apparently you haven't been reading the thread...
    The Prestige Edition comes with what!?

    quarantine1.jpg

    quarantine2s.jpg

    quarantine3.jpg
  • .Tripwire.
    I now realize that those goggle devices are plugged into the people's heads, but that one guy in the last panel still looks to me like he's wearing a tomato cap. Which is awesome, tomato caps should be a real thing.
  • Scosglen
    This comic would be about 100 times better if it was just the last panel.
  • beavotron
    holy footgrobbling nintendoscrobbledoos
    someone light the S_O beacon stat

    i get what you're saying with the guitar analogy i guess
    but you really lost me where you started chastising people for making up insults.
  • Jailedtynic
    Queen of Poops
    too many words, not enough art.
  • MagicToaster
    The AC wouldn't be the AC if people like him didn't come around to tell us how horrible we are. We are horrible. We are the AC.
  • Metalbourne
    It tickles me pink that I pissed someone off so bad that they feel the need to bring it up eight months later.
  • Zombiemambo
    The best part is still Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff. The guys so hella sweet that reality itself came apart.
  • DirtyDirtyVagrant
    Chill the fuck out dude.

    People here tried to help you (Beavotron, Metal)

    You told them in so many words that you aren't interested in learning to draw, you're just doing this for some friends. Which essentially turns your thread into a showcase thread, which we kind of frown on.
    my comic is for the jokes, (mostly in-jokes with my friends, although if you know the games i'm talking about in the episode, you'd prob find it funny too) not the art.

    Sorry, but that makes it a bad comic. You have to understand that the expressiveness of the image is what sells the joke. The best example I can think of is Calvin and Hobbes.

    Did you ever read it? If you did, try and recount the number of times in your head that you laughed at only the pictures. I know I can think of a lot of times personally.

    If you didn't read it, then do so. Actually, pick up the tenth anniversary book, because as far as I'm concerned it is filled with sage advice, useful insights, and a window into the mind of one of the better cartoonists to ever pick up a pencil.

    The only reason anybody has insulted you is because you're being kind of an idiot. If you want to improve your drawing, learn some of the basics. You don't have to spend decades mastering the figure, composition, lighting, color theory, etc.

    Just sit down, and get over yourself, and draw.
  • mully
    That guy in the holla hoodie looks like some stupid boyfriend I have in Vancouver.

    Also, that's a huge improvement from the first time you posted that.

    Here are some things I think you could benefit from:

    - Perspective. One point on the horizon is all you need to convey a "distance" - it's super easy to learn and it'll help you a lot for every aspect of a comic.

    - Cleaning up your lines! I know it can be a cool style to have 'em all shaggy and such, but it does nothing for your piece when you run out of room for pupils and end up just making them smaller so they'll fit.

    - Don't use Comic Sans. It is the #1 rule of comics - there are plenty of free font packs out there with really cool comic fonts that will probably feel a little more natural.
  • Fugitive
    I can't seem to find the rest of your comics anywhere. Do you have an imageshack account you have them archived on or...
  • Campion
    And to S_O: what the hell man? I was so disappointed to have returned here after such a long absence and find nothing new from the world of Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff

    Check again bro! 004.jpg

    005.jpg

    006.jpg

    007.jpg
    He's even featured various quotes and references to SweetBro and HellaJeff in his newest adventure "Homestuck"

    There's also a wiki
    http://sbhj.wikia.com/wiki/Sweet_Bro_and_Hella_Jeff_Wiki
  • Artreus
    Worry Pig
    beavotron wrote: »
    oh s_o
    can your next ms paint adventure be about two guys who love to play video games?

    This.. is actually kind of what happened!
  • Richard+M.+Nixon
    mully wrote: »
    - Don't use Comic Sans. It is the #1 rule of comics - there are plenty of free font packs out there with really cool comic fonts that will probably feel a little more natural.

    blambot is a good place to start

    and i suggest hitting the questions/tutorials sticky and grabbing the loomis books. they are pretty handy for basic layout stuff (such as perspective as mully noted above).
  • Druhim
    Usagi's rocktopus
    Mayor of Otteropolis
    never change AC <3
  • srsizzy
    I did not know that S_O was Andrew. This thread is informative.

    What I like most about the recent post is the rant about combining expletives. I'll be waffledamned if I can agree though.

    So if the duder is still around:
    I'm sorry that i entered and asked for help without realizing this place is for professional and aspiring to be professional artists only.
    No. Most people on here aren't professionals. You don't have to be a paid professional to be good at art. You're overreacting. Look at Beavo's new thread about artists/criticism (which contradicts all the bullshit Metal was posting, but is still the philosophy of the forum).

    As Mully said, work on perspective, clean up your lines, work on anatomy, don't use comic sans. These are things you should do if you care about your comic looking good. If you don't care about making your comic worth our time to look at, then don't expect us to care about your comic.

    That's just generally how life works. It's like giving me a story filled with grammatical failures, poor sentence structure, and a terrible plot. Sure, I can tell you how to make it better, but if your intent isn't to be a great writer, then why the hell are you giving it to me to read? I'm not your friend, I don't know you, if my advice isn't going to be taken seriously, then don't ask for it. Your friends are there to pat you on the back and enjoy your novice work. The outside world is far less sympathetic. This is what it is to live amongst other humans. Learn to deal with it. You can't complain when people tell you that you're doing a bad job and you need to learn how to do better.

    Wait, I'm sorry, you CAN complain. Keep doing that. It's helpful and everyone cares.

    [pre-emptive edit] Oh wait, people already said these exact same things on page 2 and you just didn't get it. Wonderful.

    Granted, Metal is a complete tool, but he DOES say true things that other people say like normal people...he just says them like a rabid dog jacked up on straight horse dick. It's totally inappropriate nonetheless, and I'm pretty sure it's happened less since last March.
This discussion has been closed.